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Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby doctrhouse » View doctrhouse's OpenRaid characters » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:16 pm

Darrie or Fitz,

I was recently given a warning for moving raiders from 'approved' to 'reserve'. I don't want to make a big deal about the warning, but I wasn't aware that the practice was against policy. I thought I was just helping the person out by making them not get negative feedback for a no-show (we had more than enough sign-ups).

Can you post a link to this 'Policy' so that I don't find myself in a similar situation again? If it is somewhere that should be obvious I'm sorry, but I've been digging through forums for about 20 minutes with no luck.)

Thanks

Edit: I found it, hiding in the News forum.
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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby Kayla » View Kayla's OpenRaid characters » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:07 am

@doctrhouse:

http://OpenRaid.zergid.com/f/1049

Lyádryn wrote:When creating raids
  • We highly advise that you post clear looting rules in your raids description; this can avoid upset over loot. Especially mounts.
  • Do not post derogatory comments such as 'No idiots' 'please do not be retarded' - if found, these comments will be removed.
  • Do not accept more reserves that needed for a PvE raid; this can cause mistakes in the voting system.
  • Always vote honestly about who showed up to your raids; giving someone a no-show when they attended will give you a bad reputation amongst other members.
  • Once a raider is approved, unless there are extenuating circumstances (simply "preferring" one user over another is not an extenuating circumstance), you should not unapprove them/change them to reserve. If a user changes their status from "Coming" to "Maybe", you may change their status.
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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby Siame » View Siame's OpenRaid characters » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:44 am

I'll put any sign-ups that survives my scrutiny (feedback, ratings, xp and gear) into reserves, as long as there isn't too many. I try filling my raid up gradually so the amount of healers scales with dps. This often leads some dps to first come into Reserves before more healers shows up and I move dps from reserves to accepted, but it also gives a better chance for people who sign up early (which I like). Usually I have a full raid and more a day before start-up, and quite a lot in reserves. Experience shows that at least 4-5 dps and 1 healer never show up and I'll need to fill up from the reserves. I require all my raiders to be in mumble before they get invites, and very many fail at this, giving the reserves a even higher chance at getting a spot. Even with 10 persons on reserve I have to recruit from my own guild 5 mins after start up to fill the raid to 25 man.

As I read the rules lined above my practice of having many reserves isn't legal? "Do not accept more reserves that needed for a PvE raid; this can cause mistakes in the voting system." I think I had 25 accepted and 11 reserves tonight, and still didnt' get a full raid.


I also tend to give a "not invited" to no-shows who contacts me shortly after raidstart (aka. 15-30 mins) to tell me they have had trouble with getting online in time and similar issues. I like that they are honest and friendly enough to contact me and say they are sorry. Is this very bad of me?
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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby Hildrande » View Hildrande's OpenRaid characters » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:07 pm

I signed up for a flex raid today, 100 minutes beforehand and was the 25th to sign up, met all requirements listed: http://OpenRaid.zergid.com/events/view/174084/okstatus

I then spent the next few hours waiting for an invite, speculating if the 21:00 start was UK time. The roster didn't fill up to 25, and I was on the not approved list. I guess the raid started at 21:00 CET, and that the raid leader didn't take 25 people from OR since he had guildies coming as well.

I'm ok with whatever policy OR have, I just want to know how it works. Is there a time limit for signing up? Is there some way to know if the raid leader have decided to not invite you, other than not being approved as time gets closer to the event?

Posting here since this is a somewhat relevant thread.
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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby Varsity » View Varsity's OpenRaid characters » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:27 pm

Totally depends on what I'm doing. I strongly believe in giving everyone a chance but there may be a few exceptions.

Older content, I use a first come, first served mentality. Although Older content to me does not include T14 or ToT as I have not finished them myself.

If the content is something that I have lead a few times myself, I am more lenient with who I invite and will normally just approve people as they sign up. If it is something I have not finished myself yet and am building a group to progress, eg. Heroic ToT, I normally try and balance those with experience against those without.

Personally I've found that taking people who have done more than me, especially in the content I'm trying to run, try to push me too hard and will take the event somewhere I don't want it to go.

I also strongly favour people who write something in their note, and have invited people with 0 experience whatsoever simply because their note has humanised them. I normally prefer skill over ilvl unless I'm making a run where I'm particularly trying to zerg something eg. Heroic Animus.

That's just me though, as has been said, every RL has their own way of doing things.

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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby Elsen » View Elsen's OpenRaid characters » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:34 am

I'll try and answer all these!

Siame wrote:As I read the rules lined above my practice of having many reserves isn't legal? "Do not accept more reserves that needed for a PvE raid; this can cause mistakes in the voting system." I think I had 25 accepted and 11 reserves tonight, and still didnt' get a full raid.
I also tend to give a "not invited" to no-shows who contacts me shortly after raidstart (aka. 15-30 mins) to tell me they have had trouble with getting online in time and similar issues. I like that they are honest and friendly enough to contact me and say they are sorry. Is this very bad of me?


As long as you are marking your reserves as Not Invited when you didn't invite them, and you need the number you set to Reserve, we trust you to self regulate. If we suddenly got 50 tickets complaining because you were setting 50 people as reserve and only taking 10 people to your raid, it may cause issues!

Hildrande wrote:I'm ok with whatever policy OR have, I just want to know how it works. Is there a time limit for signing up? Is there some way to know if the raid leader have decided to not invite you, other than not being approved as time gets closer to the event?


At the moment, if your status is set as Available on the raid page then the raid leader has not selected you - you're only selected for the raid if you move into the "Approved" section, or you've been placed as a Reserve if you're in the "Reserves" section. If you don't want to be a reserve, you are welcome to unsign (navigate to the raid page and change your own status to "Not Coming"). You may also wish to unsign if you think the raid leader is leaving it too close to the raid to approve people (some raid leaders like to leave it to the last minute to select their roster). It is totally okay to, a couple of hours before think "I don't want to wait around - I'll unsign".

I hope this clarifies things for you :)
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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby toolbag » View toolbag's OpenRaid characters » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:21 pm

I recently fell victim to what I believe is the spirit of the original post. I was marked as approved for a four hour event and subsequently rearranged my life to attend. I received my btag and accepted, even chatted with the RL a bit before the event. When event time was due and I had not received a group invite, I asked the RL for my invite and was told that he had filled the group. I explained that I was marked as approved, etc and was told only "sorry" and was un-btagged at that point. I believe the point being made is, don't approve more people than you intend to take for fear that placing people on reserve status will only cause us to unsign (which is absolutely our right to do.) It is extremely rude to cause someone to potentially miss out on another event, or something out of game because you don't want to make use of the reserve roster.

I had to submit a ticket on this to keep any negative ratings away since, to this day, my name is on the approved roster.

On arbitrarily moving players from approved to reserve... yes it's most certainly the right of the raid leader to build whatever roster they wish. I can't argue with that. But it seems like maybe there should be some safeguard for people who have been listed as approved for x amount of days before the event and have stayed approved for x amount of days as well? I don't know. I've been screwed (felt like it, even though I understand it's the leader's choice) over by a raid leader just before an event by being switched to reserve. And this was by an OpenRaid staffer with whom I had run successfully before. This person hosts many an event that I would sign up for were I not discarded by them in the past. And that's the only recourse I have as a sometime jaded openraider; to not give that leader my time to toy with anymore.
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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby Sapphirea » View Sapphirea's OpenRaid characters » Sun May 18, 2014 3:38 pm

I've had some words with a healer last raid. I approved another healer who enlisted later then he, and with less item level then he. But I run a casual raid, and he was new to OpenRaid. From time to time, I like to give a new person a chance to make a start at OpenRaid. So I might favor a later, lesser geared person to one who has a higher item level then the one im not taking.
Thing is, he (the healer who wasnt taken) really got upset and wondered if I had something against him :-S
Of course I don't want to disappoint people but I aim for 13/14 players on a flex. It is a nice amount of people and also a good sized group for the step to 10M normal.
As soon as the raid group is formed, i put down a comment that the group is full, so the reserves can go do other stuff.
So I passed on him (he wasnt even put on reserve, let alone accept), and he got upset.
How do you raidleaders handle that? Do you even answer?

edit: I never accepted anyone then put on reserve, it shouldnt be allowed unless very good reasons
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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby equa » View equa's OpenRaid characters » Sun May 18, 2014 4:48 pm

I always take into account the first come first served rule but I also realize that some people work (like me) for days on end were getting to a computer can be problematic, I have friends who work at a desk and OpenRaid is just a click away, lucky them! I have seen to many people sign up for multiple raids that will start around the same time just so they can be first on the list! unbeknownst to the raid leader, then he puts some one on reserves that signed up after the guy who was first and then the first guy to sign up is already in one of the other raids he signed up for and the guy who was put on reserves didn't show up at all! even though I have never been in a raid that dose not have at least one no show for one reason or another.
the first guy to sign up is in another raid the reserve didn't show and now you are pugging for someone you have no clue about! even though the rating system is not perfect it can give you some good guidance use it! if you were the first to sign up but didn't get picked move on you can always pm the raid leader and ask what the problem was and if she dose respond use it for what it's worth maybe on the next raid sign up!
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Re: Raid Rosters - "Unfair" Selection

Postby Sprell » View Sprell's OpenRaid characters » Sun May 18, 2014 4:49 pm

Sapphirea wrote:I've had some words with a healer last raid. I approved another healer who enlisted later then he, and with less item level then he. But I run a casual raid, and he was new to OpenRaid. From time to time, I like to give a new person a chance to make a start at OpenRaid. So I might favor a later, lesser geared person to one who has a higher item level then the one im not taking.
Thing is, he (the healer who wasnt taken) really got upset and wondered if I had something against him :-S
Of course I don't want to disappoint people but I aim for 13/14 players on a flex. It is a nice amount of people and also a good sized group for the step to 10M normal.
As soon as the raid group is formed, i put down a comment that the group is full, so the reserves can go do other stuff.
So I passed on him (he wasnt even put on reserve, let alone accept), and he got upset.
How do you raidleaders handle that? Do you even answer?

edit: I never accepted anyone then put on reserve, it shouldnt be allowed unless very good reasons


Unless I run progress raids I usually take a varied roster with a mix of experienced/geared players and some that are less experienced, much like you do. I don't see any problem in doing this unless you clearly state in your event info that you will take players with more experience/gear over players with less. Simply explain it the same way to the player raising the issue and I am sure it is understandable. If he/she is still arguing I would probably just ignore it.
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